67: The Enneagram and Money with Career Wellness Coach Jazmine Reed-Clark
How does the personality test the Enneagram impact your relationship with money? Today’s guest is Jazmine Reed Clark. A Career Wellness Coach in her entrepreneurial day-job, she’s an Enneagram lover and expert. I brought her on to share with us how the enneagram can teach us about our relationship with money, what motivates us and challenges us depending on our enneagram type, and so much more!
Enneagram Types: Fears and Motivations
As Jazmine mentioned, we all have parts of the Enneagram, but we have a dominant type defined by our key motivation and biggest fears.
Enneagram Type One: The Perfectionist. The primary motivation for an Enneagram one is to be perfect or good, and their primary fear is being bad or morally corrupt.
Enneagram Type Two: The Helper. The helper's primary motivation is to be loved, and their primary fear is to be unloved.
Enneagram Type Three: The Achiever/Performer. Primary motivation is to be successful and their primary fear is to be unworthy.
Enneagram Type Four: The Creative Individualist. The Individualist's motivation is to be different from others, and their primary fear is being like everyone else.
Enneagram Type Five: The Investigator. The Enneagram five's primary motivation is to be competent, and their primary fear is to look dumb or not know what they are talking about.
Enneagram Type Six: The Secure Loyalist. Their primary motivation is security, and their primary fear is being in harm's way or unsafe.
Enneagram Type Seven: The Enthusiast. Their primary motivation is to be happy, and their primary fear is to be unhappy.
Enneagram Type Eight: The Challenger. The Enneagram eight's primary motivation is to have control, and their primary fear is being controlled.
Enneagram Type Nine: The Peacekeeper. The Peacekeeper's primary motivation is harmony, and their primary fear is conflict.
How the Enneagram Can Help us with Money
Jazmine says understanding our key fears and motivations help us understand why we do what we do with our money. A person who is an Enneagram 2 might have a hard time saying "no" at work to additional projects when they aren't being compensated for them because the have such a strong drive to help others. For a 2 in this situation, understanding that they can provide help and get compensation would be important. An Enneagram 7 might struggle adhering to a budget because it feels like it's in conflict with being happy. For a 7, they may have to build in a bigger "fun money" bucket so they still have a way to spend spontaneously without hurting them financially in the long run.
The Enneagram in Business Owners
Jazmine says knowing our Enneagram can help us redefine our purpose in our work. Looking at our fears and motivations can help us set aligned business goals, determine how we want to get our products and services in the world, and what areas are best to outsource. For example, if you are a product-based business and an Enneagram 4, it will be important to sell unique and one-of-a-kind pieces. If you were an Enneagram 6, it might be essential to get feedback from your friends and customers about what the next product launch should include.
Knowing Your Partner's Enneagram Helps
Jazmine says understanding your partner's Enneagram (this works for both a business partnership or romantic partnerships) can provide you with insight and empathy to their financial choices. For example, if there is a romantic couple that are Enneagram 3s and 9s. As a three, they would take the lead in her romantic relationship to create a household budget. Their partner, an enneagram nine, didn't feel comfortable voicing their opinion but felt left out of the budgeting process. Understanding your partner's Enneagram can give the person, in this example the 3, the opportunity to ask for their partner's input preemptively since a 9 is likely to avoid anything that feels like conflict.
About Jazmine Reed-Clark
After graduating in 2013 with a degree in journalism and communications, Jazmine Reed-Clark struggled to find her footing as a young professional. Before becoming an entrepreneur, she tried on different hats within the advertising, marketing, and human resources fields. Each time, she would find some success (though, plenty of failures, too) but never felt the same content she saw in other friends. Eventually, she would begin to share her story on social media and through her writing. Over time, her storytelling became her business. She is now a content creator, career wellness coach, and mental health advocate focused on helping millennial women feel secure at work, inspired at home, and confident in their skin. She offers 1:1 coaching, job hunter packages, and hosts the anti-girlboss podcast, Office Politics. Reed-Clark has appeared in The Financial Diet, Refinery29, Cupcakes & Cashmere, and The Everygirl. Learn more about her on Instagram @JazmineReedClark or on her website, and listen to her podcast Office Politics.
Want More?
If you LOVE personality assessments, I dive deep into the four financial archetypes inside my group coaching program Grow a Profitable Practice From the Inside Out.
It’s one of the first things we do together as a cohort to provide education, validation, and broaden awareness about why we do what we do with our money in private practice.
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Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
All right. Hello, Jazmine Reed-Clark, welcome to the Mind Money Balence Podcast. I'm so happy to be chatting with you about the Enneagram and money. And as we were emailing back and forth, you put in the subject line Enneagram plus money, my favorite things to talk about. So I'm like, Yes, we are, we are in the right place. I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, my God, thank you for having me, in fact, and I can be very woowoo. I was. And as I was telling you offline, I just signed up to the certified, I'm taking a certification program later this summer, but I was on the fence about it. And when I got your email in my inbox, I'm not joking. It was like that morning, where I'm like, shall I just invest and like, do a certification program. And then I was just like, I'm just gonna take this as a sign. So it was just, it was very kismet, our connection?
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yes. Oh, I love that. And I, I believe that our relationship with money is mostly emotional and psychological. I believe that budgeting and saving and investing is all incredibly important. And I don't discount it. And you cannot budget your way to a healthy relationship with money. You can budget your way to a savings goal. But you can't budget your way to feeling good about money. And so anytime we can incorporate other ways in which people can relate to money, I'm like, yes, let's throw it out there. Because even if listeners are like, the Enneagram is not my thing. At least they've been exposed to a new way of thinking about their relationship with money. So I'm stoked to have this conversation.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Absolutely. And just even knowing that the Enneagram deals with like motivations and fears, which like, we all have a motivation when we're budgeting we, most of us have fears around money. So I think they like go hand in hand.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yes, well, Jazmine, I always ask folks, to the extent that they're comfortable just to share, you know, their money story. Could you share with the listeners? I mean, you are a guest writer for The Financial Diet, you talk about money all the time, is that just something you were comfortable with? Or did you have a couple of roadblocks getting to where you are today?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
No, I love this question. It's so interesting how you don't, you kind of can realize everything in retrospect. So growing up, I grew up and upper middle class home. And I really had, I think both of my parents came, I think, to understand money in really similar ways. But my dad had a huge influence over me, both of my parents experienced upward mobility. I mean, they're boomers. So I mean, lots of things happening in the background, but my dad was like, you always have to save for your future. And even when I like got my first I think even an internship, but definitely my first like, full time job. And he would always have me put money in my savings account. But the 401k was huge. And he just drilled it into my head. Always be saving and always be planning for your future yourself, because people don't think about it until it is unfortunately too late. And I don't know like I just really absorbed that. And so I took that with me from I started working when I was 15 or 16 working in the movie theaters. And then obviously I work now as a 30 year old. And so that's stuck with me. And I do remember going through different phases. When I was younger, I had a turquoise treasure box, saved everything. Like I saved every penny and I would get so excited as the number grew. And then even when I went to college my first year I was a penny pincher. And then we started drinking in dorms and going out for pizza and I completely lost all sense of reality with money. I don't know like I was definitely doing like that broke college kid life. But I graduated had to move back in. And once I got that first job, my dad was just really instrumental in sitting down with me. I remember my first full time job I got I think I was gonna make 32 grand on my dad's like, you have to negotiate. I was like, No, it's okay. And he's like, No, absolutely not like you have to negotiate. Here's what you're going to say my dad, he has since retired, but he was in HR for his whole career. So that is like a very privileged tool that I had my whole life was having not only a male figure in the home, who was yes, the primary provider, both of my parents worked, but he was also a dad who was really, my God, hands on and being like, Hey, this is what you got to do. So I think I made a lot of mistakes, but I had really healthy principles. And one other thing that I really didn't realize until After I got married, and I saw just how differently my husband and I approach money is, my husband definitely has a scarcity mindset. And he has his own trauma and upbringing behind that. And then I have a very like abundance mindset. Now we can have a very, very long discussion about, you know, privilege and reality and all of these things, but I really mostly got the message. If you work hard, and you save responsibly, you can have as much as you want and do what you want. So I just have never, I feel like I have a very comfortable relationship with money. If anything, I kind of had to confront two major things in the last few years. One, I thought I was a lot better with money when I was making really good money. And I, for those who don't know, I left recruiting and HR to now become a career coach and a writer. But I still do freelance recruiting and HR consultation. But when my business was first taking off, I went from making 90k a year to 30k a year. So obviously, that's like a drastic difference. And I learned that, you know, maybe I really hadn't developed as, like, the best habits as I thought I had, I'd really just made a nice enough salary that I could just pay my credit card off in full. And I, you know, I don't really shop at nice places. But it was when, you know, a lot of things got stripped away that I really started back from the basics and the last year, and I think I'm like rediscovering my relationship with money. And the other thing is finding out priorities, I think I've had to re-establish what my value system is with money. But I have to say like, I've always, it's just never been a scary topic with me. And I just think I got really blessed with that. I'm like, I wish I almost hate that answer. Yeah, I know that answer. Maybe you may feel like to like it almost feels like too pure. But I just had parents who were really open about money. And I would didn't appreciate it always at the time, but I don't know. Yeah.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Well, I appreciate your transparency there. And I don't think it's it's too easy of an answer to light of an answer. I think what it also does Jazmine is shed a light on kind of how rare it is, and how in listening to you tell your story, you acknowledge what a gift it was that your parents and your dad spoke to you about money, and how that did potentially set you up on this path to negotiate your first job, and to be comfortable moving into entrepreneurship. And I want to say thank you for acknowledging that entrepreneurship is hard and that a lot of us do take a pay cut, when we first start out, you know, going from 90k to 30k, you're not going to see that on somebody's Instagram posts. You're not going to see that on somebody's website, but to acknowledge that there is this starting up journey that all of us in entrepreneurship experience. So thank you for that.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, of course on so many lessons from it, maybe we'll get into it in the episode, but from realizing that like time is just as valuable if not more than money and having to put a price on your time. And I will tell you this I mean it more as a joke, but I am like everyone needs to be an entrepreneur or work in customer service, like one or the other. Because my god it will teach you so many life lessons. And I just, I'm so grateful for this, even though it has been you know, you have your struggle months and your struggles. But yes, yeah, my God, we're here.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yes. Well, okay, let's, let's take us there. What is the Enneagram? I think for anybody who is like millennial ish. They've heard the word. They've seen it on their Instagram, they've probably seen it in their inbox. Some people know it and love it. And some people are like, what word did you just say? So give us the high level overview of what the Enneagram is.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
The Enneagram is really I think, if you were to take a really shallow dive, you would conclude that it is a personality assessment, but it's actually so much greater than that it is there, there are nine points. So the nine types, so to speak, and each one illustrates your core desire and your core fear. Now they have things from being a perfectionist to a challenger to somebody who's security focus, we all have nine types. It's not that you don't have one or the other, but there's one that we really lead with. And this really shows up in our interpersonal skills, and our work relationships, our marriages, and really the relationship we have with ourself. And I almost think it's like that life mountain that you're meant to climb and really like the bullshit you're meant to go. verb in this lifetime, and more than anything more than what it is, it's also a tool. And it's really a tool to for me personally, it's helped ground me. So I'm a three I have balanced wings. But I think at work, I lean into my three wing two. And then I think at home, I'm much more of a three wing four. And I have the subtypes. And subtypes are like a whole nother jam. But basically, I tend to lead with what's my one on one relationships, like, and then how do I show up socially, I really have a blind spot with self preservation. Meaning that I'm not always thinking about how do things benefit me, and what does success look like, to me, I'm seeing my lens through others. And knowing that it's something I can come back to it has really helped me in stressful situations or even difficult moments. And then as a career coach, while I currently don't lead with the Enneagram, I, you know, it's always in the back of my head. So I do have some clients who had a fellow three. And I think she wanted to believe that she had different motivations. But eventually I was just able to be like, Hey, do you want to be the star? She's like, Yeah, I just want to be the star. I'm like, and that's okay. Like, it allowed, I think it gives us permission to understand like, and that's a part of you, it doesn't mean that you don't work hard, and you're not. You are not your vanity. But if you know that you want to be the star and you crave public recognition. And that's why you really want this director role. Let's be real with ourselves, acknowledge it, because now we can actually get to the stuff that we're here to do. So it's a tool, and it really allows you to better understand yourself.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I love that. And can you give us, I know, like you said you could talk all day about wings and about type. You talked about what motivates them? And what scares them? Could you just run us through the motivations and fears of each of the types? I think that'll help listeners just kind of get a sense of what you're talking about when you're talking about threes? And twos and fours?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
No, totally, absolutely. So one, they are typically called the perfectionist. So their key motivation is to be perfect and to be good. This can often get mixed up with a three so to be clear that your perfectionist is the morally judicial person who is really principled and they have like the the rap of being like a clean freak or playing by the rules. And then their worst fear is just being bad being morally corrupt. Two that is your helper or sometimes it's called the giver, the lover and then this person their key motivation is to be loved. And their key fear is to be unloved. And these tend to be the people who are warm, empathetic, very, very giving. This is the person who when you're sick, they show up with soup and like give you medicine and take you to the doctor. And then a three is typically called the achiever or the performer, key motivation being to be successful and achieve success in their life. And as a three myself, I always like to say, I mean, this isn't necessarily the person who wants to be the CEO for a minute. I think that's why I was so hesitant to claim the three I was like, Okay, I kinda get that. But the three, here's I actually had met with an Enneagram coach, and I'm really into home decor and I wouldn't allow myself to think I was good at home decor until I got published in apartment therapy. And then yeah, and then once I got that goal accomplished, I'm like, then I was like, Oh, now I know I'm good at home decor and that really shows that like, I can't take enough of my own word like I really lead with some self doubt so when other people like you know, being the performer when other people applause me or give me applause I mean, then I feel that I'm worthy. So really the Enneagram three their biggest motivation is to be successful accomplish things and feel worthy of love are worthy of other people's attention and then our core fear is to be deemed unworthy or to be a failure. The four is the creative individualist, key motivator is to be individual different from the rest and then this person really leads with their emotions. So for a while I thought I was a four wing three, and they are typically they always know the cool restaurants they don't want to be like everyone else they often feel misunderstood. They're you're typically your artists. The fear being that they're just like everyone else or that they have no significance. Yeah, and then five the investigator, these are typically your research heavy bookworms, but their key motivator option is to be super confident and know everything there is to know about whatever they're passionate about. And then their key fear is to look incompetent to look stupid and to look like they don't know what they're doing. Six is secure loyalist is what it's called, but this is like the best friend archetype. And they just want to feel secure, whether that be emotionally, physically, you know, that's what they're all about. These are sometimes the people who are who have like the same best friends for 10 years, and then their biggest fear is to be in harm's way. So again, whether that's physically being abandoned, etc. Seven is the enthusiast. These are like the adventure seekers. And so their key fear is to be happy. And their key motivation is to be happy, and then their key fear is to be unhappy. But these people tend to hate to tap into their feelings. They don't like uncomfortable negative feelings. They tend to be impulsive, but they're a lot of fun. And then eight is the Challenger motivation being to have control.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I'm laughing because I'm an eight.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
No but it's like, no, okay, so is this how you feel? Like, I feel like eights got a bad rap. I'm just like, I think they just want to know, what's the deal? What are we doing?
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, totally. Um, I remember, I remember two things. When I found out I wasn't eight. At first, I was like, oh, that's me. And then the second thought was, ah, that's me. It was the exact same thought. But the second time through, it came with so much validation in that I was no longer angry just because I was angry. I was angry because it came out of a space of wanting to protect others, so I'll let you finish the eights. But yeah, well, no, I think we definitely get a bad rap.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, my God, totally. Especially like women a it's like they totally it's like so. So to be out of control would be like the key fear or to be. And I think there's a lot of like justice, right? Like, you don't like to see people being screwed over. And then a nine the peacemaker, these are motivated by harmony, peace. Hey, can we all just get along, and then they absolutely hate conflict, the worst thing that could happen. And nines, I feel like people are like, Oh, they're like the really, the forgotten ones are the ones who just want to be cozy all the time. But I am surrounded by nines in my life, and to me, they are the most accepting, liberating, I'm married to a nine wing eight and then my best friend is a nine wing one. And my god, I think they really like there's a reason I know, they say that like, you know, Nines at the end, because it's they like, round it all out. But yeah, so those are all the types. I know, that was a lot.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
It's a lot but I just think it's really good just to get that high level overview of what we are talking about when we're talking about the Enneagram. And what I appreciate about this, too, is that I have been reading about the Enneagram for years. And I learned a new moniker for the six. I had always kind of associated the six with like, high anxiety and really controlling and really like a nervous Nellie, but I really appreciate that you said no, this is like the best friend archetype that helps me kind of reframe how I see it too.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Totally, totally, and it's like, I have such a love hate relationship with because I understand having the archetypes but yeah, I think that's why I kind of rejected, like the three and the two first. Like, I'm like, I know, I'm in the heart triad. But I'm like, I'm not the person who is only thinking about work all that but now I get it. Now. You know what I mean? So, yeah.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
So you you mentioned your experience of the Enneagram and learning about the three? How do you think knowing about our Enneagram can help us or hurt us when it comes to how we relate to our money?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
I love this question. The way it can help us is knowing as simple as that might sound our key motivations and our key fears. So with me specifically, I think the way that the Enneagram can really help is because it lets us see how we should approach our relationship with money. So let's just take something like paying off student loans, I think something that most millennials can relate to on some level. And as a one, perhaps you the best thing is you want to follow the rules. And so that might look like you knowing that you need to read a bunch of books or find different podcasts that you're really into and have that guidance with you. Whereas an eight who may love to challenge the status quo, they may want to approach it completely differently. So it's helpful in liberating you from status quos, or what you should be doing. Now, where I do think it's harmful is just like astrology and Myers Briggs, I do think it can allow you to linger in a fixed mindset. And so I think that's just a blind spot to be wary of. Because I know I get like a tone like, Oh, I'm a three. So it's, you know, catch yourself when you want to do that.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah, yeah. And what you're talking about is the language I use for that, but they use in astrology as well is, is the shadow side. So instead of being like, Well, I'm just an eight, I'm kind of bitchy deal with it. Like, no, you don't really get to have that pass. You get to say, hey, you know, I'm sorry that my intensity came off that way. I'm really working on it. And I understand that the reason I responded that way is because something must have made me feel vulnerable or unsafe. Right? So to really take ownership of that, instead of using it as an excuse, the same thing goes like, like you said, with astrology. If you're like, I don't know, a Gemini let's, let's say, and you're like, you keep gossiping. You can't just say like, oh, well, I'm a Gemini, that's just how it is. It's like, No, you don't get to use it as an excuse, you get to use information about your design to say, these are areas I know are going to be challenging for me, and I can use it to my advantage. I appreciate you putting that little asterisk in there.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Of course, of course.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah. So you were talking about being an entrepreneur and for the self employed, lots of my listeners are self employed therapist or self employed folks in the helping and healing spaces. How can the Enneagram show up in our businesses?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, my God, I think about this question literally all the time for myself, but it comes up a lot for my coaching clients. So I do career coaching. And I think it can really help us determine what we want to do for next quarter, or how we want to show up, it allows us to really redefine our purpose. So because I know I can speak to like fellow entrepreneurs, and you know, self employed folks, it, it can really help me set goals. So I think I think it can really help with goal setting. So for example, I'm I'm currently in the like product phase, or the research and development phase of coming up with merch. And I know for me, and this is where I think my four wing really comes out is I know, I want to have merch that like not everyone has. And I know I want it to be really creative, and something that feels authentic to me. But then I also know that I am always thinking kind of like a three like, okay, branding, does this make sense? How does this fit into my mold and my package? Whereas perhaps maybe a six would think well, how do I even know that the merch is going to work? And what do other people think, and they may go to all of their different friends and ask for all of their different opinions. And they may just approach the situation completely differently. So I think when you understand your Enneagram type, you can go set understand blind spots, I know another thing is honoring my Enneagram type, and using that as a tool has really shown me how to have a healthier relationship with conflict. Because as an entrepreneur, like you're going to run into it, you're going to have people who don't pay you on time don't pay you at all, or people who just aren't happy with a service. And I have a podcast at web two podcasts, but my primary one is office politics. And I knew the day would come that I got a one star review. And I and I got it. They didn't say anything with it. But I saw that like average number go down. And I remember having a bittersweet moment because a part of me was like, Okay, well, this means that like other people other than, like, my mom and my friends are listening, so that's good. But obviously, it was really bitter because as a three I do look at external validation. And to me this was someone saying this wasn't worth my time. And so I was able to take that moment hit pause and say, but is that fact or is that feeling and knowing that I'm even in the heart triad, knowing that I'm going to be more more vulnerable to having, you know, a tender heart and realizing, okay, how can I lean in to my growth, the number as a six. So how can I lean into my thinking triad and it really helps me press pause.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
So helpful, I'm curious as a career coach, if you ever haven't come up where, obviously we can't type other people if we don't know them. And when I say that word, I mean, give somebody an Enneagram number. But do you ever help your clients work through working with a boss who's maybe in the shadow side of their Enneagram? Do you ever you ever use it to help, like, solve challenging situations?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Completely, with career coaching clients, and even in my personal life, so he's no longer at this employer, so I feel good talking about it. My husband, his boss, and I loved his boss. I've met him many, many times. And his boss was actually the one who introduced him and I to the Enneagram. So it's all kind of full circle. But he was like, Oh, I'm either a three or an eight, which, okay, he's a CEO, not shocking, that he's like, and eventually Jordan was Jordan is my husband, Jordan was opening up about just things that were happening at work where he felt like corners were getting cut, and they were just trying to achieve and eventually I said, Well, do you think so and so just wants to be the star. And he just wants the recognition. And Jordan was like, yes, that's exactly it. And I just feel like he's willing to cut corners just to like, you know, get a product out. And I hate that. And, and so I was able to really sit with him and say, Okay, well, I know that you're a nine with an eight and a one wing, but Jordan is very, like, you're going to do the right thing. And since I kind of shared that, that three connection with a CEO, I was like it now that is not to say you just deal with it. But here's what I think he means here's how I think you can communicate with him. And here's really what he's going after. And so you can use that, that eight wing that you have, and really help communicate him and steer him in the right direction. You know, and another example is I, oh, I have a client who she actually came to me knowing her type. And she said, I'm a six. And she's been at the same job for 14 years. And she's wanted to leave, like five years ago. And so yeah, so it's been really helpful for her to really understand that core fear of like, so we dig into, okay, why are you really afraid to leave? And why are you really afraid to let go of this job that you've been completely dissatisfied with for the last half decade. And so we're kind of really able to go deeper look into that introspection, but then also use it as a tool, okay? Let's also use this to your advantage. And it shows that you're loyal, it shows that you earn people's trust, which means you're going to hold people to higher standards, there's a certain quality assurance that you're going to have. So I think it's really being able to dissect the problem so that we can address the symptoms.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
So well said to talk about how knowing our types or knowing other people's types, when we're working with them, can help just give us some perspective to how we're acting and how other people are acting. Again, it's not about labeling and saying, Oh, they're bad, because they're a three or a six. It's about saying, hey, what do you think might be going on because of their Enneagram type that might be making this particular situation? Tricky. Oh, challenging
Jazmine Reed-Clark
That and so everything you said, and it's funny that you just brought that up, because for Christmas, I didn't ask for anything. But I wanted one coaching session with her name's Hillary, and she's like, on like EnneagramCoaching.com. And I was like, that's the only thing I want, I want to do like her marriage session. And it's where you type each spouse, and then you go, and then you get to say, like, Okay, this is how you should communicate it. And that was when we finally determined Jordan was a nine. And we were talking because I don't know what she brought up. But it triggered like a pain point. And we had in our relationship. And I think because I'm so action oriented, if I ever feel like somebody's not making a decision, I'm just like, Okay, well, you know what, you're not making decision I'll make it for us. Here we go. Here we go. Let's go. And because I'm like, I want to keep that momentum going. And I was able through that session to learn pillar, he taught me that Jordan has a nine wants to feel included, he kind of feels disregarded in a lot of areas of life, because he's always just trying to be like steady Eddie. So when you make these decisions, even though it's it's, I mean, it's usually simple things like, Oh, I just bought this throw pillow, or I just bought this thing for the house. She's like, he wants to feel included, because he just feels like he's never the person to speak up. And I remember turning to him and saying, like, is that true? Is that how you feel? And he said, Yeah, and I like started tearing up because I'm like, Oh my god. Had I known better I would have done better and ever since that session, I've done just a much better job. And I've been way more intentional about asking him, hey, like, here's a decision I think we need to make. And you want to sit down on this day this time. And I'd love it if you came with your ideas first. And when I tell you like, that has been one of the biggest game changers in our relationship, I'm not exaggerating whatsoever. So yes, that's part of why I'm obsessed with the Enneagram. It just helps me understand my relationships with everyone around me.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I love that. And I love just how excited you are talking about the Enneagram. I want to rewind for a second to something you'd kind of like touched on. But how did you get into the Enneagram? It sounds like your husband's old boss or old job had brought it up. Tell the listeners and I about how you found the Enneagram.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
So it was so funny, because, like everyone, I had heard of Myers Briggs, probably in high school, and I was really, really into it. And so they were doing some sort of like team building workshop, and his boss introduced them to the Enneagram. Jordan hadn't heard of it before he came home. And he's like, I know how obsessed you are with Myers Briggs and all these other things. Have you heard of this one? And I think just because I hadn't discovered it myself. And like I saw, I was like, What? What? What is this? Me? No, I don't know what this is like, let me just know. And he was like, Okay, well, I think you'd like it. And then hello. And then my job did a workshop, it was basically the same thing. And so when when, so then I kind of was forced to really listen and pay attention and be into it. And once I did that, I was like, I kind of saw it with refreshed eyes. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is incredible. And then I kind of just went down that rabbit hole. And, you know, I'm someone who can pick something up and kind of put it down rather quickly. But this was something I just, I became obsessed with. But I've always been really into like that human psychology and understanding human behavior, because we are fascinating creatures. And I felt like this kind of just explained a lot of things. And really, there's such power in articulation, whether that be knowing that you have a chronic illness, or just, you know, just being able to have certain words, this just allowed me to articulate things that I either didn't know, I was feeling or things I had always felt, but didn't have the perfect description to explain myself.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Yeah. So it's it was kind of repetition of hearing it and seeing it a couple of different places that allowed to go oh, there might be something here. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm not an Enneagram expert, but I'm an Enneagram enthusiast. And I can imagine as the three, if somebody else brought up the Enneagram to you, but you were like a big Myers Briggs person, you might have been like, No, I already got my personality type. Thanks so much.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
That was exactly verbatim what I said. I was like, I'm good thanks though.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
So funny. Um, what other kinds of tips or things do you think people should know about the Enneagram and the way, it shows up with our money?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, I love this. So I think let's look at budgeting because I know that can definitely be a sore spot, or a blind spot for so many of us. And it's probably the one common theme that all of us relate to, in some way, shape, or form. So let's, you know, again, to bring it back to being a three, I have to set goals. And funny, I just refresh them over the weekend. And so to me, that is what motivates me is knowing, like, I have a certain I have an emergency fund for my personal life, but I now want to have an emergency fund for my business. So I'm starting basically from zero and I set a goal for the rest of the year. And then okay, how can I double that, you know, over the course of the next 24 months, give or take. So for me, it's setting goals of like, okay, by this date, you should be here, this date, you'll be here and it's something I can keep looking at. But for somebody else, like a seven who are more impulsive, and I definitely have seven and my tri-type, I know that I have to make sure that I pay my bills first my like make sure that certain things are paid first because maybe having the $5 for gas or you know, having it to the dollar may not be the best for you. And that's another thing I think when we understand our motivations, our fears, our blind spots, it really gives us more grace, like I'm never going to approach money the way my husband does. He's very you know, he wants to know every single detail and he wants to game the system and he like he gives so deeply in to it, but one thing he admires about me is I'm very set it and forget it, like I live on auto pay like, and I just have to know it's taken care of, and just know that I have my goals that I'm working towards. So I think it just lends a little bit more grace and, and then I think the other thing I want to add just about money is it really reminds us of our inner child. So kind of going back to, you know, I was taught, hey, if you work really hard, you can have whatever you want. So it's not really shocking that I'm a three, but I know, other people in my life who maybe saw their parents kind of make really poor decisions with money, that might have encouraged their scarcity mindset, or they may think you can't trust people you love with money, because, you know, they're not going to be responsible with it. So you, you know, you have to, you know, be guarded with money. So I think it also just allows us to understand why we have the relationship we do with money, and why the other person that we love, or work with or care about, also have that same relationship and just really how, how can they blend? Like, how can we just coexist together? So that's definitely the biggest thing for me.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Well said, I mean, I could talk to you all day, I've got like a gazillion other one other things like, Well, what about this, this and this? But instead, I'll ask you, where can people find you and connect with you as you're getting ready to deepen your Enneagram journey.. Where should people go if they want to learn more about you? Or maybe even work with you?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Oh, yeah, totally. So my instagram handle is at Jazmine Reed-Clark, I mean, just typing Jazmine Reed-Clark, hopefully, I come up. And, um, that is also my website. And you know, as you were just saying, I will be certified by fall. And I know that I want to be able to offer career coaching with a focus in Enneagram coaching. And I'll still have things that have nothing to do with the Enneagram. Because I get that's not everyone's jam. But it comes up so often. And I'm really excited to just continue with this obsession turned specialization, but yeah.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
I love it. And one thing that I'm asking everybody in the year and a half of, you know, life being a little more intense than usual, is how are you finding ways to have fun in your life right now?
Jazmine Reed-Clark
I love this question. I just had like, the deepest conversation with some family members. And you know, they would they had just recently turned 40. And I was like, okay, when you look back at your 30s, anything you regret, or what would you do over? Both of them, it was a husband and a wife, they both and they have like the same birthday falls within the same week. And they were saying, you know, we really didn't rest and play and I realized that, you know, it's like three, like, you gotta work, rest and play. And that has just stayed with me ever since we left that brunch table. And I know that, you know, the past year and a half have I done that perfectly. Fuck no, like, I have like screwed up so bad. But one thing I'm really proud of is the fact that this whole pandemic forced me to live in the present because I didn't really have any other option. Because thinking about the future, I would crumble like it's painful to look like to even think about last year, but it pushed me to be in the present have a different sense of gratitude, and really get over a lot of my own bullshit like I was holding on to grudges and resentment and I'm telling you I'm so much lighter ever since letting the shit go and understanding that everyone is deserving of grace including myself and on a much like less preachy level. Other things I do are like going for walks and letting my body rest and for me, rest has looked like baking. I am obsessed with Claire Savitz. And I got her book dessert person so I'm trying to like bake my way through the book. And, and I mean, like everyone I bought a Peloton, but that's not really fun for me, I like so it's another place for me to be neurotic. But yeah, like baking, going for walks, allowing my body to rest and really just allowing myself to turn my brain off for a moment and stay in the present and not constantly think about you know, next quarters goals or next year's goals because clearly the last year and a half has taught us that we don't know shit like the ocean is on fire. Like that's what I've been telling myself. When I'm like stressed I'm like the ocean is on fire Jazmine like, you can sit down for 30 minutes and watch a TV show.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Such a good reminder to all of us that everybody has permission to sit down and watch a TV show and to hate their Peloton. Those are both equally valid. We'll just If this was such a treat I will make sure that your contact info is linked everywhere and I just want to say thank you again for such a delightful conversation I know my listeners are going to have lots of takeaways after today.
Jazmine Reed-Clark
Thank you so much for having me.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin
Of course.