91: Money Dates: Tips From a Financial Therapist
Money Date
A money date is a planned time to sit down with your money and review important goals. For today's podcast and accompanying post, I'll be talking about the couple's money date. A couples money date is the planned time to talk about anything money-related in your partnership, from daily income and expenses to short-term goals or investing in retirement. When couples have regular money dates, I've seen that they feel more aligned with one another, and they tend to be more capable of talking about other uncomfortable topics.
How to Talk About Money in a Relationship
A common issue in couples is an inability to talk about money in their relationship. Many of us in Western cultures are sold on the idea that talking about money in a romantic relationship is rude or unsexy. Me? I think talking about money with your partner is one of the sexiest and most intimate things you can do. Why? Because it allows you to align yourselves, together, on current and future plans. Nothing says "I've got you, babe" like a 5-year money plan, am I right?
Let me let you in on a tip from a therapist: talking about money in a relationship is just like talking about anything else slightly uncomfy. It's best to give your partner a head's up that you want to talk about money and keep the conversation as neutral as possible. Instead of "you've overspent on dumb stuff," try "I've noticed we could both be more mindful of where we are spending." If saving up for something is important, try "I'd love for us to take that Mediterranean vacation we've been dreaming of. Can we sit down to crunch the numbers together?" That approach is far more compassionate than, "We'll never be able to afford a trip if we keep ordering takeout."
Financial Planning For Couples
Financial planning for couples is another way of saying "household financial planning." Financial planning for couples means getting on the same page about financial goals. These can be short-term goals, such as making sure the couple agrees on how much money they can spend monthly. They can also be long-term, such as reviewing investment allocations and planning for retirement. The important thing is making sure the couple agrees on their goals. As a financial therapist, I've seen far too many couples assume that their partner had the same idea about money as them and be caught off guard when their partner had a totally different concept in their mind about money.
Values-Based Topics to Discuss
Before getting into the nitty-gritty of what to do with your money, I think it's critical for couples to agree on their values. In other words, what do they want their money to do for them? What type of lifestyle do they envision for themselves. A precursor to the logistics of the money date would be a more money-adjacent money date, which is a values-based money date. Here are some questions you and your partner can answer before starting the ritual of a money date.
What would you do if you won a $5M lottery?
What are our lifestyle priorities?
How do we define financial security?
Is supporting extended family a value for us?
How much debt, and what type of debt, are we comfortable with?
What financial risks are we ok taking?
How do we want to talk to our kids about money? (If relevant)
Financial Topics to Discuss
You can discuss so many different financial topics on a money date! I recommend sticking to the basics, like your spending plan and short-term savings goals if you are starting. Once you've got a handle on the basics of a money date, you can open up the dates to potentially more intense topics. For example, financial topics like long-term care, life insurance, and how you want your life to look in retirement might be topics for future money dates.
Below is a list of potential financial topics to discuss on your money date. Don't try to do them all at once! Instead, pick one or two during each date, knowing that money is an ongoing conversation in your relationship.
Household budget or spending plan
Agreeing on short-term financial goals
Deciding on an emergency fund amount and how to save up for the emergency fund
Getting life insurance
Creating and finalizing a will and trust
Review retirement accounts and investment allocations
Check your credit scores and credit reports
Understand current debt obligations and create a debt repayment plan
Discuss long-term care
How to Have a Money Date
When it comes to the format of a money date, I recommend making it as similar to a traditional date as possible. Some of my financial therapy couples love having a waffle-and-coffee money date, whereas others like candles and wine. Some couples prefer to keep money conversations in their home, whereas others are happy to take them on the road and head out for them. Choose your own adventure and play around with it! In general, the guideline I use for a money date is below.
Plan it in advance. Make sure you agree on a date, place, and time for your money date so you can both come to the money date prepared for the conversation.
Pick 1-2 topics to discuss. Don't try to tackle a bunch of financial topics at once. If you are starting with money dates, the focus is usually on the spending plan. Once you've had a few money dates, I typically recommend a quick spending-plan check-in before moving onto another weightier topic like retirement or debt.
Keep it limited. Our brains can't stay focused for too long. Instead of forcing a lengthy money date, try keeping the money date contained under 90 minutes. Know you can always return to the topic and have another money date in the future.
Know your "orange flags." No matter how calm and compassionate you are heading into a money date, money can be emotional. Know your "orange flags" that act as a warning sign that things are getting too heated. For example, if you notice yourself rolling your eyes, physically feeling constricted, or your responses are curt, take it as a warning to hit "pause." You can say to your partner, "This topic is making me a bit stressed. I'm going to take a quick break and then come back to it." And know when it's time to throw in the towel. It might sound like, "As much as I wanted to agree on a goal today, I'm running out of fuel. Let's table this topic until our next money date."
End on a positive note, and schedule your next one. End the money date by reflecting on what went well. Did you agree on cutting out a few streaming services? Score! Finally open up that 529 Account for your kiddo? Awesome! Celebrate the wins! Make a plan for your next money date before leaving the current money date to help make it a regular part of your life.
Values-Based Budgeting For Couples
I recommend money dates to all of my financial therapy couples. Whether weekly, monthly, or quarterly, regular money dates help couples stay connected about their finances. The most frequent topic that ends up on the "money date" list is the dreaded budget (or, as I prefer to call it, a spending plan). That's why I've taken my knowledge of values-based spending plans, plus my work with couples, and created a course with the specific needs of couples in mind. So if you need help getting started with a money date, and budgeting is a topic on your list, I'd encourage you to check out Clarify for Couples, a value-based budgeting course.
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In honor of Valentine's Day, I thought we'd talk about couples and money today, I polled my audience over on Instagram. If you're not following me yet, you can find me @MindMoneyBalance, and ask people what specifically I should talk about when it comes to couples and money. And I threw out a couple of different options. And the one that won, the one that won, that's the thing, right? Was on money dates. So that is what we are going to cover today.
So let's start at the top. A money date is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. But a money date is really pre-planned time where you sit down with your money, and you review important financial goals. Of course, you can do a money date alone, where you kind of dig into your values and your saving and your spending and your investing. But for today's podcast, I wanted to really focus on couples money dates. And as a financial therapist who works with individuals and couples, I have to tell you that every single time I work with couples, I am recommending that they do money dates. So when it comes to couples and a money date, it is sitting down together and talking about anything that is money related in your partnership truly, whether it's daily income and expenses, or if it's things like short term goals, or what to invest in within your retirement accounts. And what research shows is that couples who talk about money regularly report being happier. And anecdotally, what I can tell you from my work in doing couples work and couples financial therapy is that I see couples who talk about money and have money dates, which is where they set aside time to talk about money, they seem to be just more aligned in general, they seem to be more comfortable talking about other uncomfortable topics, they tend to get excited when they achieve those financial goals. And it's so fun to watch people have just such a deep connection and a deeper bond. And I think in our kind of Western society, you know, I'm based in the United States, there's this idea that that talking about money is inherently rude or unsexy, and that you shouldn't talk about money in partnerships. But what we also know is that some of the leading causes of divorce and separation are disagreements over money. Disagreements over money and infidelity are the leading one into reasons cited for divorce and separation depending on what year and depending on what study you're looking at, but it's actually so so important to be talking about money. It's it's to me it's kind of the opposite of what it's framed as right it's framed as like unsexy or uncool or not spontaneous or not romantic. And to me, it's like shoot, If we can have people who are in romantic relationships, talking about money together, it actually is deeply sexy and deeply intimate. And the reason for this, in my opinion, is that when you are able to talk to your partner together, calmly, compassionately with kindness, about what you want to do in your relationship and how you will fund those things in your plans--That's frickin sexy, because nothing says, "I've got you babe," like a five-year money plan. Hmm. Sorry, that was a tangent and an ode to Sonny and Cher.
But here's--before we get into financial planning for couples and money dates, I want to say that the biggest thing that people tell me is, We can't talk about money. Anytime we talk about money we fight. And what I find is that it's it's very much a self-fulfilling prophecy because these couples don't want to talk about money. Because they believe that if they talk about money, they'll fight and therefore they don't talk about money. So the only times in their relationship they are talking about money is when they are forced to and when are most of us forced to talk about money. When it's something uncomfortable. Something like I lost my job, or I didn't get that promotion I was planning, on or my student loans didn't get forgiven. Right. And when we are bringing up to our partner, I lost my job. I didn't get a promotion. My student loans aren't getting forgiven. There's a lot of tension and discomfort there. And then when you talk about money when it's already tense and discuss and uncomfortable then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where you're like, Oh, see, we can't talk about money, because anytime we talk about money we fight. And so having regular money dates, is a way to dial down that heat to dial down that intensity when it comes to talking about money.
So talking about money in a romantic relationship is just like talking about any of those other topics in your relationship that are a little bit uncomfy. Right? Like, Oh, do we really have to talk about the in laws? Or do we really have to talk about what our kids said in school? Like anything that feels a little bit awkward or uncomfortable, you want to give your partner the respect of a heads up that you want to talk about money and keep in mind that the goal of a money date and having a conversation about money is to prevent these big blow ups is to align you on what's important in your relationship. So something to be mindful of and in therapy, we often say when we're talking about couples is to be careful of using words like always, or never. Because when we use those words, you always overspend. You never look at our retirement, you're going to put your partner on the defense, and they are going to try to prove you wrong. And right out of the gate, we are starting out this money conversation, where one person's on the offense and one person is on the defense. So be mindful of using those words. And then try to keep the couple at the forefront instead of thinking you versus them or me versus you think about the We and the situation, think about the Us in the situation. So let's say you would love to do a tour of China. And every time there is something on TV, where they are in a city in China, or they're eating Chinese food, you're like, Gosh, we have been talking about wanting to go there forever. Instead of we're never going to be able to afford a trip, if we keep ordering takeout. Try: Ah, every time we're reminded of China, I'm reminded that that's been something we've been dreaming about. Instead of dreaming about it, I wonder if we could sit down together and see what it would take for us to be able to get there together? That's very different, right? So try to try to be mindful of those ultimates always in numbers, and try to be mindful of the ultimate goal when it comes to talking about money.
So moving into the just like financial planning in general, for couples, I think another way to think of it is just how do we agree? How do we get on the same page about what we believe our money should do for us? And the important thing about agreeing again, is it's not, I win, you lose, or you win, I lose, it's about where can we find that space in between where both people are heard where there is a compromise or a collaboration around agreeing on those goals. When it comes to money dates, I often find that starting out with a little bit heavier of topics or a little bit more like dreamy topics can actually be a good way to start. Because when we get into the nitty gritty of the money, it can be helpful to make sure that we're that the couple is on the same page in general. So making sure they agree on values around what they want money to do for them. So really thinking about a values-based relationship for money or what values-based topics you can discuss. So a precursor to how to budget, if you're going to sit down and have a money date about budgeting, would be a little bit broader would be a little bit more fun. These are the types of conversations that can help you to see what's important for you, what's important for your partner, and where is that kind of Venn diagram, and where does that exist in in your relationship? Right.
So let me give you some examples of values-based topics that are money adjacent. So they'll of course cover money, but they aren't going to necessarily be about how much money is coming in, how much money is going out. So some values based questions to kind of get to kind of get you thinking about financial topics to discuss would be how do we define finance Social Security? What are our lifestyle priorities? What would we do if we won a $5 million lottery? That last one is really fun. Because, statistically speaking, we know most of us won't win the lottery. But almost all of us have had that thought of what we would do with a windfall. And it can be a really good way to get a sense of what those values are. Would a lot of money go towards charitable giving? Would a lot of it go toward travel? Would a lot of it go toward debt paydown? It's a great way to kind of see if money was no object, how would we spend that money? And that can really be a good precursor to financial topics to discuss, which is kind of phase two of the money date. So the first money date, or the first couple of money dates, you're just doing that 10,000 foot view of what's important to you, and then you're getting into the nitty gritty.
So when you are first starting out on the money date, I definitely recommend sticking to the basics, such as, how much money are you earning each month? How much money are you spending each month? What are our goals short term? Do we have an emergency fund? How are we going to save up for an emergency? Things like that. And once you've got a handle on the basics of a money date, then you can broaden the topics on that money date to ones that might be a little bit more emotionally triggering. So maybe talking about long-term care for your aging parents is really touchy. But you can maybe a little bit more easily talk about how much you want to spend on groceries, right? So let me kind of share with you a list of financial topics that I share with my clients that you can use to help frame your money date. This is not me saying you have to do all of these. Instead, I usually recommend choose one topic, maybe two topics during each money date. Knowing that money, my friend is now an ongoing part of your relationship, sidebar, money already is in a relationship, you might just be avoiding it and kind of kicking the can down the road. Talking about money and having regular money dates is now going to be a part of your relationship. So some topics that you can talk about in a money date would be a household budget, or if you've been here a minute, you know that I prefer the term spending plan. So figuring out how much money is coming in/how much money is going out? Are we comfortable with that? Do we want more of a cushion? Do we maybe you want to save more? Maybe we are over saving and it's safe to spend--you can go back and listen to my podcast episode on you know that fear of spending and how it's okay to spend money. Other topics include agreeing on short-term financial goals. That could be you know, saving for a vacation but it could also be deciding on an emergency fund amount and how much money you want in the emergency fund. How you're going to save up for that emergency fund and how like what the timeline is. Do you want to save up for your emergency fund really quickly and put all of your extra savings towards an emergency fund within three months? Or are you okay with that kind of taking 12 months, 18 months, things like that? Other financial topics include getting life insurance, creating and finalizing a will and trust, this is especially important if you're married, or if you're cohabitating together but not married. You definitely want to make sure you have a will and trust so that any of your assets go to your surviving partner. especially important if you have kids, whether they are your biological children, stepchildren, making sure that if you want them to have any of your assets that you have that written down. You want to also review your retirement accounts and investment allocations. Other topics include checking your credit score, especially important if you're thinking about moving and purchasing a house. Or if you have another big purchase coming up. Maybe you're getting ready to go back to school and you're thinking about taking out student loans, it's going to be important to make sure you know what your credit score is and also pulling your credit report. A note a credit score and a credit report are different. A credit score is a three-digit number that tells lenders how safe or risky you are to do have money extended to you in a loan. And a credit report is a compilation of all the different places where you have taken out a line of credit or taken out a loan and paid those things back. Things on a credit report could include things like car loans, student loans, a mortgage, some, like cable and phone bill will be on your credit report. So those are examples of things that would be on a credit report. And you want to check your credit report to make sure that everything on there is actually you. I hear horror stories about people whose credit, credit reports have been false. Because somebody stole their identity, they stole their social security number and open credit cards in their name, or took out loans in their name. So you want to make sure that everything on there is actually in your name and is actually yours. And if not, you can go to the credit bureaus and try and get those things removed from your credit report. Other topics include understanding how much debt you have, and what type of debt repayment plan you want--how much debt are you comfortable having? What type of debt are you comfortable having? Are there certain types of debt that you want to pay down quicker? And then of course, thinking about long-term care if you have children thinking about if you want to save money up toward their school, higher education, those are just a sampling of financial topics that you can discuss on a money date.
I recommend making the format as similar to a traditional date as possible. Some of my financial therapy couples love having a breakfast money date, like waffles and coffee, and others like it more kind of traditionally romantic with candles and wine. So you might prefer to keep your money conversations in your home or you might be comfortable taking them on the road. And you know, having them at a restaurant or having them outside in a park. So you decide what your comfort level is how you want to do them, but making it special and not making it feel like a dry white toast situation, make it fun, and play around and see what feels best for you. In general, the guideline I use for a money date is kind of a five step outline or five step plan. So I'll run through the five steps and then kind of dig into them a little bit more. So step one, plan it in advance. Step two, pick one or two topics to discuss. Step three, keep it time-limited. Step four, know your orange flags. And five ended on a positive note and schedule your next one, I guess that's technically two steps, but I kind of think of it as one step. So planning in advance is super important. So making sure you and your partner agree on a day, a place and a time for your money date and this gives you both the opportunity to be as prepared as you want to be for that conversation. Sometimes that preparation is just getting emotionally prepared for the conversation and sometimes that preparation includes like logging into your retirement accounts and seeing what's there. So that way, when you sit down together, maybe each have your laptop pulled up, and you're actually looking at numbers. So making sure you know what you're going to be talking about, where you're going to have it, when you're going to have it and what time you're going to have it, and literally putting it in your calendar, just like you would if you had a reservation out for a Friday night dinner. Same type of thing here, put it in your calendar, plan it, agree on it, make sure you both know what's happening. Step two, pick one or two topics to discuss. So I know I just listed off a bunch of different financial topics you can cover but I don't recommend ever doing all of them at once that is exhausting and bound to be emotionally draining. If you're just starting out with money dates, I generally find that the focus is on the here and now which is the spending plan how much money is coming in? How much money is going out? Are we comfortable with it? Do we need to tweak it in any way? Once you've kind of gotten that one under your belt, then you can maybe move on to some trickier topics like retirement or debt. And once you get into the hang of it, it usually looks like spending a few minutes at the top of the money date just kind of double-checking that the spending plan is on track and then moving into a bigger topic. Step three is keeping it time-limited. Our brains cannot stay focused for too long. So instead of trying to force a lengthy money date, try keeping your money date contained. I usually recommend no longer than like an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half. Knowing that now that you are folding in money dates into your relationship. You can always return to that topic in the future but don't try and force something when your brain starts to kind of run on fumes. That's usually key to say, Let's put a pin in it and we'll talk about about it next time. Which brings me into step four, which is knowing your orange flags. I specifically say orange flags and not red flags, and orange flag is kind of like the warning sign that things might be going off the rails, things might be getting a little bit heated. So for example, if you notice yourself, rolling your eyes or feeling physically, like tight, or your responses are really snappy, maybe that's your orange flag. And that is your cue to say aloud to your partner something like, Wow, this, this particular money date is making me stressed or this particular topic is making me really anxious, I'm going to take a quick breather, we're going to go get a glass of water, and then we can try again. And it's also just as valuable to know when it's time to hit pause, and come back to the money date at different times. So in that case, if you're no longer at that orange flag, you can't take a few deep breaths, you can't take a sip of water and return back to the conversation, then just say to your partner, Look, I really wanted to get to the point where we agreed on a financial goal during this money date, but I quite frankly, I'm running out of fuel. And I really want to be able to dedicate my full energy to this. Let's just like table this topic until our next money date. So that's step four is just knowing your orange flags. And sometimes that's also knowing your partner's orange flags and saying to them, Hey, you know, I've noticed you've grabbed your phone a few times, I know you have a tendency to like, zone out when things are getting tough, should we come back to this later? And that's a nice compassionate thing to say to your partner to is like, I noticed that you're drifting off, I don't want to force this on you. Okay? And the final thing, which I realized might be two steps, but whatever, we're gonna keep it one step, which is end on a positive note and make sure that you schedule your next money date. So end the money date, by just spending a moment reflecting on what went well. Did you agree on cutting out a streaming service? Awesome. Did you finally open up that 529 savings account for your kid? Fantastic, celebrate those wins and has you are celebrating and either literally or figuratively giving yourselves I vibes like set up the next money date, say like, Cool, let's do this again next Sunday, or in a month, whatever it is. Just start planning to fold money dates into a regular part of your life.
So as you can tell, I'm a fan of the money date. I recommend them as I mentioned to all my financial therapy couples, if you have been on my website lately, and if you've been thinking about working with me in financial therapy, you'll see that there's a big old disclaimer on my website that says "My financial therapy and Emotionally Focused financial coaching practice is full," it is literally full to the gills. At the time of this recording, I have over 60 people on that waitlist and it's almost 50/50 split between individuals and couples. So definitely, if you're a couple and you're wanting to work with me, start with a money date. This is honestly something that I recommend to all my clients in this can help you start moving in the direction of feeling more comfortable about money. In the coming months, I'm gonna I've got a little something up my sleeve for all of my couple listeners. But until then, you know, give this a try. Let me know how it goes DM me over on Instagram @MindMoneyBalance and with that, have a lovely Valentine's and I'll see you next week.
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